the Ring of Death
The Ring of Death
The Ring of Death
The Ring of Death
The Ring of Death
The Ring of Death
The Ring of Death
The Ring of Death

HORROR STORIES

Tesco and the borked 360 - 2 June to present

Introduction by diz

Deeptone kindly contributed his tale to the forum. This horror story takes him on a nightmare trip to Tesco, the DTI and the ERA, via the Sale of Goods act. His ongoing tale's most recent find is this most curious letter from the Electrical Retailers Association, or ERA. Deeptone is fighting on and is preparing court papers.

Deeptone, thank you so much for your story. It provides a thorough and valuable source of information about the reality of consumer rights in the UK, for all visitors. I salute you for your dogged determintation, wish you all the best in your campaign and hope that your positive outcome will act as a template for action to the many other UK consumers suffering with you. Good luck and fight on!

Deeptone begins...

Right then. This may be an epic second post, but I thought people would like to hear about it. Frankly the more people who hear it the better as far as I'm concerened.

I have got all the relevant dates and details documented, so this will be a pretty complete history of my dealings with Tesco.

I bought my 360 on launch night (2nd December 2005) from a branch of Tesco in Colchester. I was with my girlfiend and a couple of local forumites from another forum. I'm fairly sure the manager of the store would remember me, as I statred clogging up his electrical aisle at about 3 in the afternoon, and thanks to the wonders of the internet I could tell him his exact stock allocation of 360's. He seemed quite surprised about that. Very Happy

Anyway, I happily used my 360 until August 16th 2006, when i got my first RRoD. Not having quite the coverage it does now, I phones MS who picked it up, 'repaired' it and returned it. All within about a week or so. Aside from it actually breaking in the first place, I felt that was pretty decent service.

Again, I happily used the machine until 2nd June 2007, when I suffered my second RRoD. I was far from happy at this point, as it was outside of the warranty period and Microsoft would expect me to cough up £80 odd to sort it out. I wasn't about to put up with that for a console that seems to only last 9 months. I decided to forego MS altogether and sort it out with Tesco. I was well aware of my rights under the Sales of Goods Act, so I trotted off to my local store.

They were less than helpful. The bloke on the desk just spouted that they have a 12 month warranty, and they couldn't do anything. Since he was standing next to a sign that said 'statutory rights are not affected' I asked him if he knew what those rights were. He didn't seem to and had to call a manager.

The manager just repeated what I had previously been told. I showed her a printout from the DTI website explaining Sales of Goods Act. I was informed that they could not discuss anything legal with me. This was a bit of a shock , as I'm sure part of their job description was to ensure the business complied to all applicable law. All I could get from her was the helpdesk number, which I took.

The next day, I gave them a call. The first person I spoke to repeated the same 1 year warranty spiel I've already heard twice. ia sked to be put through to a manager, but they initially refused! She said she had worked there 7 years and had nver heard of the Sales of Goods Act. I suggested she asks for better training from her managers then, and I'll ask on her behalf when you put me through. I begrudingly got put through to a supervisor.

Can you guess what they told me? Yep, Tesco have a one year warranty. That is all they offer. Yes, I'm well aware of that by now. I ask if she has heard of the Sales of Goods Act. She has, of course, but doesn't see how it is relevant here. Rolling Eyes

It's only when I can convince her to go on to the DTI website and get her to read the actual guidelines does anyone agree that I may have a case. I'm put on hold for ten minutes whilst there is some obvious head scratching going on. After that, I'm asked to put all of this in a letter, to a Mr Sam Logan, who will look at my case. I would need to provide evidence that the machine was inherently faulty at the point of sale, though.

The first letter I wrote to them is below. Sorry, it's a biggie.

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Dear Sam,

I am writing to you regarding an Xbox 360 that was purchased from a Tesco on the 2/12/05 (a copy of the receipt is enclosed). After being advised by the very helpful and polite staff both in store and on the helpdesk, I was given your name.

The machine has suffered a hardware failure (often referred to as the ‘red ring of death’, as the machine displays this by lighting three quadrants on the front panel with red lights). This is actually the second time this has occurred. The first time I sent the machine back to Microsoft to be repaired. I have included copies of the e-mails, dated August 14th 2006, August 16th 2006 and August 17th 2006 from Microsoft repair department for your information.

After a further 9 months, it has failed again. I have been advised that the best course of action is to seek a replacement from the retailer I originally bought the equipment from.

I understand that it is your company policy to offer a 12-month warranty on all electrical goods, and I also understand that my complaint falls outside of this timeframe. However, I believe as a consumer I am still covered by the Sale of Goods Act (1979) and the Sale and Supply of Goods Act (1994), specifically section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979, which details the quality and fitness for purpose of goods on sale to the public. Whilst I am sure you are well aware of these regulations, a copy of the relevant clause can be found on the link below, on the Office of Public Sector Information website. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/Ukpga_19940035_en_1.htm [1]

I feel the most salient points of this act are covered on the Department of Trade & Industry website http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html)[2]

After directing a member of your customer service team to The DTI site, they agreed that the onus of responsibility is on the retailer for a period of up to 6 years. They also agreed that a games console that cost £279.97 at the time of purchase should reasonably last longer than 18 months (or the two 9 months mine has lasted!).

Incidentally, I have had a Playstation 1 for 12 years, a Playstation 2 for almost 7 years, and an Xbox and Gamecube for 5 years, without incident or failure. Therefore, I do not believe it is unreasonable to expect a similar length of life for an Xbox 360.

I was asked; quite reasonably may I add, to provide you with some evidence that the Xbox 360 supplied to be ‘inherently faulty at time of sale’. While I cannot give you any technical evidence, sadly (I am really not too technically minded and I am also not aware of any information supplied by Microsoft to this effect), there is quite a large amount of evidence pointing to a systematic and widespread problem within the 360 itself.

From one of the gaming industries widely read and respected news sites, an article that was first printed on 25th March 2007. The full article can be found at http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25290.[3]

A story that appeared in The Guardian on Thursday 31st March 2007 (and reprinted on their website http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2091221,00.html)[4] detailing the same problem:

From one of the world’s largest gaming websites (IGN, http://uk.gear.ign.com/articles/736/736297p1.html) [5] news that the manufacturing of the Xbox 360 was revised from the beginning of this current year, partly because of ongoing reliability concerns.

The problems surrounding the unreliability of the Xbox 360 has recently been covered by the BBC’s Watchdog programme http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/reports/consumer_goods/consumer_20070213.shtml [6]

Finally, from an Internet technology news site, engadget, last week reported that the European Commissioner was investigating Microsoft about the build quality of the Xbox 360.http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/01/european-commissioner-gives-microsoft-one-week-to-respond-to-360/ [7]

I would also be happy to supply you with links to Internet forums and message boards where other users of the 360 have posted their stories of failing machines, often comprising of hundreds, if not thousands, of posts.

Putting all of this together with my own experiences, I feel it is reasonable to assume that the first batch of Xbox 360’s produced had an inherent fault within them, causing them to suffer from a hardware failure, sometimes months after first purchased.

I understand that this is an unusual situation, as the fault does not always manifest itself until well into the life of the equipment. I also fully understand that it is open to opinion about how long a piece of electrical equipment should reasonably last. It is my opinion that a reasonably expensive, high-end piece of consumer equipment should last longer than 18 months. Indeed, since it has already been repaired once, halfway through this period, I can only deduce that this problem cannot be permanently fixed and I will only face similar issues in the future.

In light of all this, I am requesting that you replace the Xbox 360 that was purchased from your company in good faith. I am only seeking to replace what I now believe to be faulty goods under my rights as documented in the Sales of Goods Act (1979). I very much hope a company of your stature will honour consumer rights.

I trust that you find all this satisfactory, although if you do require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me. I look forward to hearing your reply to this matter within the next fourteen days.

Appendices

[1] Sale and Supply of Goods Act (1994) amendment to clause 14 of the Sales of Goods Act (1979):

1.—(1) In section 14 of the [1979 c. 54.] Sale of Goods Act 1979 (implied terms about quality or fitness) for subsection (2) there is substituted—
"(2) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.
(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.
(2B) For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods— (a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied, (b) appearance and finish, (c) freedom from minor defects, (d) safety, and (e) durability.

[2] Department of Trade & Industry Website Sales of Goods Act Quick Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.
• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

[3] Gamesindustry.biz article ‘Rings of Red’ (25/05/07) extract:

However, there is another problem which Microsoft faces at the moment - one which the company has shown even less sign of understanding, or addressing. It is the problem of hardware reliability and customer service, an area in which the Xbox 360 has a track record that is nothing short of utterly appalling - and an area which Microsoft absolutely must address, or risk handing the goodwill of the market back to its rivals.
Of course, this too is not a new problem. Microsoft has been slammed over the failure rate of Xbox 360 consoles, and its own poor customer service in dealing with that matter, many times before - British readers will undoubtedly recall that the firm was hauled over the coals on the Watchdog programme here only a few months ago.
This problem hasn't gone away; in fact, from a consumer point of view, Microsoft appears to have done precisely nothing to address it. While the attention of the media may have turned to scrutiny of Sony's failings, the vast numbers of Xbox 360 owners who have been let down first by Microsoft's shoddy manufacturing, and subsequently by the company's arrogant and unfair policies with regard to customer service, have increased. Their voices are contributing to a groundswell of unrest and negative buzz which will hurt Microsoft very badly indeed if it is not addressed.
The problem is clear. A large number of Xbox 360 consoles from launch onwards have shipped with manufacturing problems which have manifested themselves in the dreaded "three red lights" - an error code displayed on the front panel which means that the console has died, and needs to be returned to Microsoft for service.
The number of systems which shipped with these problems is a matter of some debate, but it's clear that it is a far, far higher proportion than the company originally admitted. Early claims suggested that Xbox 360 consoles were only failing as often as you would expect from any piece of consumer hardware - a figure generally agreed to be around 3 per cent. However, entire batches of consoles at launch were failing en masse - and the reliability, although it improved, continued to be poor for months afterwards.
Has this been fixed? Who can say - Microsoft has certainly made no promises regarding enhanced reliability for the Xbox 360 Elite console, so it's simply impossible to judge whether new machines rolling off the production line will be any better than their predecessors. Even giving the benefit of the doubt, that still means that millions of machines from the "unreliable" period of the console's manufacturing are sitting under televisions around the world.


[4] Guardian article ‘What is the real failure rate of the Xbox 360?’ (31/05/07) extract:

We asked Game, one of the largest console retailers in the UK. "That's not information we're able to give out. It's commercially sensitive," it said. As for Microsoft, in the early days after the console's 2005 launch it claimed that failure rates were no higher than an industry average of between 3% and 5%. That now seems wildly optimistic.

Last month, its vice-president of entertainment, Peter Moore, refused to answer the question, telling the Mercury News: "I can't comment on failure rates." According to Moore, if someone has a faulty console they should worry about the customer service.
Anecdotal evidence about how many have suffered the "red ring of death", where the power button sticks on red, not green, is hard to assess because it is those with faulty boxes who make most noise, but Microsoft seems to have a problem. A notable feature of surveys such as one conducted recently by the magazine 360 Gamer is that multiple failures are common, with some users on their sixth or seventh console.

Third-party repair specialists also cast doubt on the 360's reliability. Simon Donn at Undercutter UK in London Colney, Hertfordshire, says: "There's a particular problem in relation to overheating. Quite often it's to do with the soldering on the board, and the fact that the fans, which are already very loud, can't seem to extract enough air. "

[5] IGN News article 28/09/06 extract:

US, September 28, 2006 - Vnunet.com reports today that Chartered Semiconductor of Singapore, manufacturer of the Xbox 360's CPU, will begin manufacturing a new version of the chip in Q1 2007. The current Xbox 360 CPU uses a 90-nanometer manufacturing process, a relatively old-fashioned technique compared to the cutting edge 40nm process soon to be perfected by Intel and AMD.

Chartered Semiconductor will update the 360 CPU to a 65nm process, the current state-of-the-art in chip manufacturing techniques. The new Xbox 360 CPUs will benefit from lower power consumption, and thus much lower operating heat. The change will likely have a dramatic impact upon Xbox 360 reliability, as the console, especially the first batch of units manufactured before January 2006, has something of a reputation for being prone to hardware failure and the dreaded "Red Eye of Death."

While the exact cause of the Xbox 360 hardware's tendency to die remains unclear, decreasing the internal operating temperature of any piece of high-end electronics has a dramatic effect on reliability. Microsoft will likely also benefit from reduced costs as a result of a more efficient manufacturing process that will allow for more CPUs per silicon wafer.

[6] Watchdog report on failing Xbox 360 from BBC Website (13/02/07)

13 February 2007
The Xbox 360 was a global phenomenon when it was launched in the UK in December 2005. The world's richest man and Microsoft boss Bill Gates called it the Ferrari of home entertainment. But we've had nearly 250 complaints from people who think it's more of a clapped-out old banger.
Worse still, you've been telling us that some of the problems with your faulty Xbox 360 consoles occur when the one-year warranty has run out. That means you have to fork out to get it fixed.
Alex Ainsow had no problems for a year. But, just after the warranty ran out, his Xbox 360 wouldn't stop crashing. He had to pay £85 for the repair. His second Xbox 360 lasted three days before it got the 'three red lights' - a hardware failure known in the gaming community as the 'ring of death'. Once you see them, the box can't be fixed.
Craig Jenkins also got the 'ring of death' when his Xbox 360 was just two months out of warranty. He's been told he'll have to pay £80 to get it fixed.
In the US, Microsoft has admitted it's had a higher number of problems than it expected. Ellie Gibson, editor of the website gamesindustry.biz, told us the gaming companies shouldn't make consumers pay excessive charges.

[7] Engadget news report (01/06/07):

Although reports of the Xbox 360 scratching discs have been floating around for a while, the story really got legs a couple months ago when a Dutch TV show called Kassa aired a segment claiming to prove that the 360 damages media. Although Microsoft promised to look into the problem, apparently that's not good enough for Meglena Kuneva, the European Commissioner for Consumer Affairs, who has given Redmond exactly one week to detail how it's handled the bad DVD drive situation in the Netherlands, how widespread the problem is in other markets, and how many complaints have been received in those markets. While the Commissioner says the European Commissions doesn't have the "competencies" to force a recall at this time, she does say that she'll be "more than happy to act" if she finds legal grounds to do so. Ouch. Better get it figured out, boys -- the clock's ticking.

This was sent by special delivery on 5th June 2007. They recieved it on the 6th June. I had not recieved a reply within the fourteen days.

So I sent a second, more concise one, to chase it up.

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Dear Sam,

I am writing in regard to my letter dated 5th June 2007, concerning a defective Xbox 360 console. A copy of the previous letter is included for your reference. For your information the complaint is laid out below:

q An Xbox 360 console was purchased from Tesco in December 2005
q Approximately 9 months later, the machine suffered hardware failure and was repaired by the manufacturer
q On Saturday 2nd June 2007 the same machine suffered the same problem
q As are my rights as guaranteed under the Sales of Goods act 1979, I am requesting a replacement machine, as I feel this should reasonably last longer than 18 months and was defective at the point of sale, nor does a repair permanently eradicate this fault.

I have given you a reasonable opportunity to resolve this matter. You have failed to do so.

Unless this matter is satisfactorily resolved within seven days of the date of this letter I have no option but to seek legal redress through the courts. I will institute legal proceedings without further notice. The costs of this action will be added to my claim.

I also require the name and contact details of any trade associations that your company may belong to as I am far from satisfied with the level of service that has been offered to me. I wish to discuss this matter further, in accordance with any codes of practice set down by these bodies.

I have also registered a complaint with my local Trading Standards office, who have assured me that they shall be looking into this case.

I look forward to your prompt reply,


So, I've given them a further week to respond. Can you guess what response I got. Correct, bugger all. Not that a little thing like that will deter me.

Whilst I'm quite prepared to go to court (as mentioned in the previous letter) I see it as a last resort. So I formulated a two pronged attack: one at Tesco Customer Service and one at the retail trade association, the ERA (Entertainment Retail Association). This was now the 26th June.

First port of call was the ERA, where I got the receptionist. I asked if firstly they had a code of practice that retailers should adhere to when dealing with customers complaints (I already know they did, they have to have one) and if they had an arbitration service in case of disputes. The poor lass really didn't seem to know what I was jabbering about, so she said she would get somebody to call me back. Fair enough. Onto Tesco.

I rang and asked to speak to the Customer Service Manager. I was told he was out at meetings all day. I asked what his name was. It was Sam Logan. The bloke who was apparently looking at my case. Oh. So in a moment of inspired bravado (Iwas a bit flustered by that) I asked to speak to whoever he answers to. I was eventually put through to somebody quite important sounding. I got the feeling she didn't approve of having to spaek to me. Her name was Moira Lipscombe. I hope you're all keeping up at the back there.

I went through my case again (don't they have computers there?) and her first response was? Correct, go to the manufacteur. I think I let out my first sigh at this point. Again, politely I asked if she was aware of the retailers responsibilities under the Sales of Goods Act. She didn't argue with me, which I took to be a sign that she bloody well did know.

She agreed to review my case (review what,thay hadn't done anything, but I let it slide) and would respond within 48 hours. We'll see.

A couple of hours I recieved a phone call from a Kim Bayley. This, it turns out is the Director General of the ERA. Gulp.

Anyway, she asked what She could do for me. I replied that I understand that it's not in her companies remit to sort out problems between retailers and customers, but dis they have an arbitration service or similar. Sadly not, but she assured me that Tesco do usually follow the code of conduct but she will look into it and pass my case onto the entertainment retail buyer for the whole of Tesco to follow up. Blimey. Now I'm getting somewhere, I thought.

Turns out I thought wrong.

Remember this was on the 26th June, and I was supposed to haer from Tesco within 48 hours. Well, I recieved a letter dated 26th June. Only it was post marked the 28th June, and sent second class. So I didn't recieve it until 2nd July. In it was not an answer to the problem, but a badly photocopied bit of paper asking for details of the problem. THE EXACT SAME SODDING DETAILS I HAD GIVEN THEM A MONTH AGO! AARRRRRGGGGGGHHHH.

Still, I dutifully filled it out and sent it back to them, along with my reciept which they had asked for. They already had a photocopy, but seemed to want the original. Iwould have sent it back in the prepaid envelope, as Moira suggested in her letter, but they seemed to have forgotten to include one. Rolling Eyes So it was sent, like everything, special delivery. I'm glad it was.

I sent a slightly sarcastic covering letter back, reproduced here for your amusment:

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Dear Moira,

Thank you for your help on the telephone last week.

Please find enclosed the assessment of electrical products out of warranty form you sent to me. I have completed this fully, but should you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me or review my previous correspondance, where all the points were originally covered.

I can see from the date of your letter you tried to contact me within the 48 hours you assured me of during our telephone call on 26th June 2007. Thank you for that. Please accept my apology for the delay in getting back to you with this information. Due to a combination of the postal strike and having your letter sent second class, I did not receive it until Monday 2nd July.

I also apologise for not being able to use the pre-paid envelope as you suggest, as there was none enclosed. I have therefore sent this special delivery, as per my previous correspondance.

I note that you may require ‘an engineer’s report…to ascertain the source of any fault’. I would be happy to arrange for the machine to be inspected by a mutually agreeable independent, Microsoft accrediated, engineer. I understand that any cost this may involve to myself will be reimbursed by your company, should a fault be discovered.

Since my complaint has now been unsuccesfully resolved for over one month now, I would very much appreciate hearing back from you within the next seven days, from the date of this letter.

I look forward to your prompt reply,



The next day I recieved a letter from the ERA. I have attcahed a scan of it as I couldn't believe it at the time. Not sure you will either, so here goes.

ERA letter about xBox 360 Ring of Death issue

Well, that's pretty much a 'What Tesco are Ace, it's you who's the problem here, now bugger off will you' letter if ever I saw one. I wasn't happy. I have filed that letter in the 'deal with later pile'. And boy, will I.

So that brings us up to 6th July. You all know what happened then, don't you. Yes, MS announced that, well, maybe there might be something a bit wrong with the 360. I was well made up. The first thing I did was to phone up Moira and tell her the happy news. She didn't seem quite so thrilled.

I told her I was just ringing as some developments had occured that may influence her decision. She was intrigued, but I could sense she was not convinced. I told her of this announcement, and she doubted me. So I told her I would send her links to the open letter on the front page of Xbox.com, the MS press release and the news stories on the Reuters and BBC websites. She didn't sound too thrilled, because she then said thatmy case was obviously with the manufacteur.

'We've been here before, haven't we Moir?' was my reply 'Do I need to remind you of the Sales of Goods Act again?'

Apparently that wasn't necessary this time. However she would require proof of purchase as I 'could have bought it anywhere and just be trying to get money out of us'. Well, that sounds a lot like she is accusing me of fraud there, which I wasn't happy about. But I had already sent her proof of purchase, twice! Oh, plus I've got a load of witnesses to back me up, including the store manager, as well as my bank records. Anything else?

They hadn't recieved it. Really? Well, after telling her when I posted it, when it wsa delivered (date and time) and who signed for it, it seemed to hav magically appeared on her desk. Spooky, hey?

Again, she said she would look into and would consider either a replacement or a refund. At last. I was getting somewhere. I said I would like to hear back within a week and wished her a good day.

That was the last I have heard from Tesco. It has now been 18 days since my last conversation with them. Sadly, due to a hectic work schedule for a change, I haven't been able to pursue this as closely as I would have liked to. However, that has now changed.

I have found a local independent repair store who are currently inspecting my 360 and will write a report as to the exact nature of the fault. I'm pretty confident it will be a design flaw / fault within the machine and not my own doing. Oh, and they are Microsoft Accrediated Engineers, so I won't have any hassle for opening up the machine, should it come to that. Probably.

When I get that (hopefully tomorrow) I already have the small claims court details written out online, so I'll just need to add the report fee and I can take them to court. I don't really want, but what option do I have left to me?

Once that's done, I can feel letters to Which?, Watchdog, other consumer groups, the DG of Tesco and the British Retail Consortium coming on. I don't take kindly to being pissed about.

By the way, all of the above is true. I wish it wasn't, but there ya go. Plus all the spelling mistakes are copyright Deeptone2007 Wink

Hope you enjoyed it, and stay tuned for more exciting updates. It'll be a pleasure telling you.

The Ring of Death

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